What was Donovan saying?

Nunzio's picture

With the season over and the Superbowl decided, the Eagles' season has begun folks!

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/columnists/20090204_Gonzo___McNabb_on_offensive.html

Despite what the reporter opines, what do you think Donovan is saying?

We need a running game?

We need a defense that can get a stop whenever the team needs it?

Or, where's Biggeo? I need to borrow a bus.

I wonder why Donovan left out the part about having a quarterback who can throw catchable passes on out patterns, or throw in stride to a receiver on a slant route, or manage a two minute offense.

By the way, did you all know that Donovan hunts? About 41% percent of the time, he bags a groundhog or a turkey in flight.

biggeo's picture

i'm not sure if a bus could

i'm not sure if a bus could kill the ego!,as far as 41%, i'm just wondering if he gives that little boy lost look when he misses

Larry99's picture

what he's saying is that

what he's saying is that he's the reason why they win but when they lose it's not his fault. ...sorry, but you can't have it both ways, Donny Mac.

There was too much time left in that Arizona game when they were ahead and there was plenty of time left for them to score when they got the ball back. While it's hard to ask him to win it twice, the great QBs take that ball down the field AGAIN and get it done. I dunno, maybe he needs another weapon or two, maybe he needs a couple throws back but you just don't say those things as QB.

great article and sums up why I find McNabb so annoying. He's a great QB and still gives them the best shot at winning right now but he's way too arrogant and I wish he would just keep his mouth shut.

stein's picture

having a defense that could

having a defense that could stop the run would be nice, you have to admit.

roma258's picture

This is why Donovan is not a

This is why Donovan is not a winner. A winner would've looked at that last drive as an opportunity to win the game, since he had control of the team's destiny in his hands. Donovan looks at it as an opportunity to blame someone else for his failings. I can't stand the guy anymore. How many chances has he had to take control and win the big game. All you can ask for is an opportunity to prove yourself and he has blown that opportunity, repeatedly. On top of it, he refuses to take responsibility and blames others instead. That's why national media is confused over Philly fans' reluctance to embrace McNabb, they don't see all the "pity me" bs that Donovan spews out, every time the going gets rough. Amazing talent, no heart.

stein's picture

he did take control and give

he did take control and give the eagles the lead in that game.

roma258's picture

stein wrote:he did take

stein wrote:

he did take control and give the eagles the lead in that game.

Nope, he got us to the doorstep, but didn't finish the job. It's a clear pattern with him. Compare that to Roethlisberger, who made the big plays when it counted.

stein's picture

you may have missed

you may have missed everything but the last three minutes of the game, but the eagles were down 24-6 at halftime and mcnabb (almost entirely by himself, very little running game) got them to a lead with 11m left. the defense was well-rested because the offense had been on the field for so much of the time.

AND there should have been a pass interference penalty called on that last fourth down play anyways.

you blame donovan because you have hated donovan since he was chosen instead of ricky 'sticky icky' williams.

nick-bug's picture

Nunzio wrote:By the way, did

Nunzio wrote:

By the way, did you all know that Donovan hunts? About 41% percent of the time, he bags a groundhog or a turkey in flight.

[rant on]
OK, here's the deal. Unless you want to experience football from the point of view of a 49ers, Bears, Vikings or Bills, you better embrace McNabb. The bottom line is that Kolb hasn't shown us he'd ready, and the odds against finding another QB as good, or better, than McNabb is mighty slim. If you opt to dump McNabb, my response is "good luck with that."

Is McNabb a "great" quarterback? No, but he's a very good QB, and far better than the league average. If you are going to compare him to Brady, you'd better compare him to the likes of Jake Delhomme and Eli Manning too.

McNabb threw for 3900 yards and 23 TD's. He has the ability.

What we have, if anything, is a failure of the football staff to put McNabb in the right position. That's a combination of play design and the quality of players around him. Football is a team game and a QB can look like a hero, or a bum, based on how the team performs.

* Better supporting players will make it easier for the QB. Being open by 3/4's of a step is huge difference than being open by 1/2 a step. (Remember QB's are making split-second decisions) And, the average football fan (or journalist) can't tell the difference. But, they aren't playing QB on the NFL level. Funny, how it looks different on TV.
* Better play design --that is designed to the strengths-- makes it easier on the players. Pretty simple (in concept) here: the easier it is, the better the performance. At the NFL level, this is where games are won or lost.
* The quality of the play design and the other players also impacts the confidence of the QB. The quality of QB play increases dramatically with the confidence of the player.

As a case in point, just consider the quality of Eli Manning's play with, and without, Plaxico Burress in the line up.

...oh, and in case you forgot, consider this: Ty Detmer, Rodney Peete, Doug Peterson.

The folks in the media in this town love to start the McNabb nonsense, because it sells papers and drives ratings. Remember, these are the same boobs that would have had us draft Ricky Williams! We should have ran them, and their ridiculous cronies, out of town a long time ago.

[rant off]

roma258's picture

stein wrote:you may have

stein wrote:

you may have missed everything but the last three minutes of the game, but the eagles were down 24-6 at halftime and mcnabb (almost entirely by himself, very little running game) got them to a lead with 11m left. the defense was well-rested because the offense had been on the field for so much of the time.

AND there should have been a pass interference penalty called on that last fourth down play anyways.

you blame donovan because you have hated donovan since he was chosen instead of ricky 'sticky icky' williams.

Huh? I never hated Donovan. I thought it was poor form to boo him at the draft and I've always given him his due. He is a top 5 quarterback. However, you have to look at the final results and they show me that he doesn't have "it".... You just don't get the feeling that, given the chance, he will win the big game for you. He's had plenty of chances to show what he can do on a last minute drive, when it really matters. He choked in the Super Bowl. He choked against St. Louis. He choked against Arisona. When he has the ball and the clock is running down, do you feel confident we'll win the big game? Based on what?

Worse yet, he blames the defense, when it was defense that kept them in the game against one of NFL's best offenses. Maybe it's Andy Reid's play calling. Maybe it's the lack of weapons. But at some point, you have to take responsibility and say "I didn't get it done". All you can ask in life is the opportunity to prove yourself. Donovan's been given that opportunity over and over again, at some point he has to take advantage, or move on. I don't hate the guy, but the point of the game is to win the Super Bowl, not come close.

stein's picture

either he is a top 5

either he is a top 5 quarterback or he doesn't have it.

get off the fence.

Nunzio's picture

stein wrote:either he is a

stein wrote:

either he is a top 5 quarterback or he doesn't have it.

get off the fence.

Ain't no one on the fence about this. They're two different observations, so you're comparing apples to oranges.

Right now, Kolb is not ready. And I doubt any other available quarterback out there would give us a better chance at winning the Superbowl than Donovan. That doesn't mean we can't complain about him.

Anyway, I don't hear a lot of people on here say he needs to go. What I do hear are people saying there are better quarterbacks out there and obviously lesser quarterbacks who have been able to put it together at the right time to win the Superbowl. Donovan hasn't. He has yet to lead his team down the field to win the big game. So, before he throws his team under the bus, he needs to look in the mirror.

When I was watching the Superbowl, the most striking observation for me was seeing how an accurate quarterback and reliable receivers can make a running game an after thought. That's what Andy strives for, but he doesn't have an accurate quarterback, nor does he have reliable receivers. He thinks he does, but he doesn't.

biggeo's picture

Nunzio wrote:stein

Nunzio wrote:
stein wrote:

either he is a top 5 quarterback or he doesn't have it.

get off the fence.

Ain't no one on the fence about this. They're two different observations, so you're comparing apples to oranges.

Right now, Kolb is not ready. And I doubt any other available quarterback out there would give us a better chance at winning the Superbowl than Donovan. That doesn't mean we can't complain about him.

Anyway, I don't hear a lot of people on here say he needs to go. What I do hear are people saying there are better quarterbacks out there and obviously lesser quarterbacks who have been able to put it together at the right time to win the Superbowl. Donovan hasn't. He has yet to lead his team down the field to win the big game. So, before he throws his team under the bus, he needs to look in the mirror.

When I was watching the Superbowl, the most striking observation for me was seeing how an accurate quarterback and reliable receivers can make a running game an after thought. That's what Andy strives for, but he doesn't have an accurate quarterback, nor does he have reliable receivers. He thinks he does, but he doesn't.

so are you saying get rid of mcnab, and how much does kolb make a year to not be ready i don't get it

Lisa33's picture

Riki tiki tavi your mongoose

Riki tiki tavi your mongoose is gone.

fishtownfreak's picture

Lots of flip floppin in this

Lots of flip floppin in this thread.

roma258's picture

stein wrote:either he is a

stein wrote:

either he is a top 5 quarterback or he doesn't have it.

get off the fence.

There is no fence. He is a top 5 quarterback on talent, no question about it. But he hasn't shown the mental make-up to win the big game, or take over when it matters. I say either trade him, or get rid of Andy Reid and bring in a whole new system.

marmkid's picture

Roethlisberger was also

Roethlisberger was also terrible in his first super bowl and was really of no consequence in their winning the game
notice how Pittsburgh didnt bad-mouth him forever because of that

if Donovan had had a subpar superbowl against the patriots, yet the Eagles had won, i bet the Philly fans would have still bad-mouthed him and given him crap for it

for some reason, Eagles fans dont like Donovan and if he isnt perfect, everyone will bash him
which is fine and their right to do, but lets not act like he is our favorite person in the world when he plays well, aka against Dallas on the last game this year and against the Giants in the playoffs

this is why Philly fans have such a bad rap, and based on some comments here, deservedly so
everyone flip flops around here it seems
after the Cincinnati game, everyone wanted him traded
after the Baltimore game, everyone thought Kolb should start the rest of the year
look how wrong the fans are 99% of the time with him

Larry99's picture

marmkid wrote:Roethlisberger

marmkid wrote:

Roethlisberger was also terrible in his first super bowl and was really of no consequence in their winning the game
notice how Pittsburgh didnt bad-mouth him forever because of that

Are you kidding me? They WON THE SUPER BOWL for goodness sakes?!?!?!?!!!

marmkid wrote:

if Donovan had had a subpar superbowl against the patriots, yet the Eagles had won, i bet the Philly fans would have still bad-mouthed him and given him crap for it

you are wrong on so many levels.

Overall, Donovan is a great QB, but he always comes up small when it really matters. He still gives them the best chance to win but so far that hasn't happened…

In this past super bowl, the Stillers were ahead by 14 in the fouth quarter and the Cards came back and went ahead. What did big Ben do in that final drive with a minute left after his great defense gave up the lead? He lead a drive that Philly fans can only dream about AND WON THE SUPER BOWL! If Donovan ever did that he would be KING of this town. Yet instead of accepting some blame and speaking like a leader and having some dignity, he chooses to throw his defense under the bus. If he's not dumping on the fans or trashing his defense, he's saying how great he played. Win the friggin' championship and we can talk about how great you played.

All of you who criticize Philly fans have no clue; sort of like Donovan. We are deeply entrenched in sports tradition here. We are passionate about our teams and we get upset if they don't perform. We know the rules, strategies and intricacies of the game and when we're fed BS or lame excuses, we know better. Many Philly fans work hard and scrape together what money they have to buy season tix or cable to watch the games. The stands are always full and we come back to root for our teams year after year after year. It's not flip flopping, it's loyalty. We bleed the colors of our team. When mediocrity is consistently produced and childish millionaire players bite the hands that feed them and the owners seem to care more about the bottom line than winning a championship it gets old.

Until the Phillies, we owned the distinction of having the longest streak without a sports championship of all the cities with 4 major professional sports teams. Next year it will be 50 YEARS since an Eagles championship. We are champions of heartbreak. So don't tell me we get what we deserve or we have a bad rap or that we flip flop. Excuse us for having an opinion about something we're passionate about.

marmkid's picture

there is always a "but" with

there is always a "but" with philly fans
Donovan is a great QB "but"
they are all backhanded compliments

now a team like the Eagles is called mediocre, yet they overachieved and made it all the way to the nfc championship game
so they had a great season "but"

anyone can have an opinion about this, and i was very upset when they lost and didnt make it to the super bowl

but lets not pretend we are something we arent
the eagles fans dont have this reputation for nothing

george's picture

Honestly, I haven't found

Honestly, I haven't found the fans here (for better or worse) to be all that different from anyplace else I've lived. It's not like there's some mysterious, impenetrable "Philly Cocoon" of fandom that needs to be explained, defended, or otherwise defined. It's part of the same planet.

I mean, who really needs to hear a term like "Philly Loves a Winner" for the ten-thousandth time? Where ISN'T that the case?? St. Louis "loves a winner," too...so does Detroit, New York, Miami, Seattle, Edmonton, Bangor, Enid, Oklahoma and most likely the rabid, demanding cricket fans in Mbabnae, Swaziland as well. Is there ANYPLACE that losers get a break aside from Crawford, Texas and (maybe) Wrigley Field?

The booing? The impatience? The tunnel-vision and sense of "entitlement" for championships? Hey, I spent over two decades as a Miami Dolphins season-ticket holder and saw both Don Shula and Dan Marino---both Hall of Famers and ALL-TIME greats---basically run out of town by an agitated, vociferous fan base that wanted results NOW. It's really no different here even if the personalities involved are.

I totally agree that fans, by and large, are full of hot air. They spend their time (and I'm including myself here) passing judgement on things that they, themselves have no real experience with always have the "right" answers with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. And when they (we) ARE wrong, it's usually with the caveat of "I told you they should have been doing that" as if the coaches themselves were blissfully unaware of this untapped pool of fan expertise. All you have to do is watch the NFL Draft for proof of this. We're stupid enough to yearly extoll our "experienced eye" on what a "hidden gem" Octavius Jones from Eastern Manitoba A&M is...but conveniently forget to give ourselves a failing grade when those guys vanish into the ether. GM's and Coaches don't get that luxury.

Anyway, I think Philly fans get too much of a bad rap. Sure, there's some drunken, violent Neanderthals that belong in a cage but those idiots are everywhere, unfortunately. I saw unconscious Jets fans carried out of the Orange Bowl on a stretcher, y'know? Made me nauseous.

Eagle fans are just frustrated over a good team---at times VERY good---that hasn't been able to climb to the mountaintop in nearly 50 years. It's not really a "Donovan" or "Andy" thing so much as just desperately wanting to see SOMEBODY be the guy that cobbles it all together so that at least ONE Lombardi Trophy can be dangled in front of all those smug Cowboys, Giants, whoever fans who never relent in their observations of the same.

Is that about right?

Larry99's picture

pretty good george, pretty

pretty good george, pretty good.

I guess it's just called being a fan. Fans should be allowed to question their team when they don't win. It just happens here more (and not just with football) and I get really tired of people trashing us.

DNA's picture

Thank you George, you nailed

Thank you George, you nailed it. Now let's hope we can exercise the same patience Denver did when they didn't run Elway out of town because he couldn't win the big one. He lost three Superbowls before finally winning two in 1998 and 1999.

There are good and bad fans everywhere. Alcohol tends to be the common denominator with all bad fans.